48 Replies Latest reply: Jan 28, 2012 7:43 AM by ValeryOchkov

I'm not a mathematician, but I think it is wrong to Mathcad Prime apply a hint of the new Combined matrix operator "norm of a vector or matrix"
The right is: "Length of the vector or the determinant of a square matrix."
I see a lot discrepancies or apparent errors in the tooltips Mathcad Prime. I showed them to mathematicians. They say it's not just a mistake - it is so named "engineering understanding" of mathematics. Nine out of ten engineers say that the vector length is the number of elements in it. And not just because Mathcad is a function of length (v), returns not the vector length but a number of elements (components?) in vector, but because for the majority of working with Mathcad think that the vector is not a vector in the mathematical interpretation (not scalar), but simply a table column.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Valery Ochkov wrote:

I'm not a mathematician, but I think it is wrong to Mathcad Prime apply a hint of the new Combined matrix operator "norm of a vector or matrix"
The right is: "Length of the vector or the determinant of a square matrix."
I see a lot discrepancies or apparent errors in the tooltips Mathcad Prime. I showed them to mathematicians. They say it's not just a mistake - it is so named "engineering understanding" of mathematics. Nine out of ten engineers say that the vector length is the number of elements in it. And not just because Mathcad is a function of length (v), returns not the vector length but a number of elements (components?) in vector, but because for the majority of working with Mathcad think that the vector is not a vector in the mathematical interpretation (not scalar), but simply a table column.

Rather than "length of a vector" I would prefer "magnitude of a vector," (square root of the sum of the squares of the elements.) The term "norm" is confusing to me (I want to think of averages), and I tend to think of the length of a vector as the number of elements in it (as you said.)

You're right! It's confusing!

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

I also prefer the term "magnitude", largely because it's less ambiguous. And the the usage of "Norm" is also ambiguous. The magnitude of a vector is one norm (the L2-norm), but not the only one. See: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/VectorNorm.html

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

agreed, what also adds to the confusion is mathematic's liberal use of the word norm .. as a scalar (square root of sum of the squares) , norm as a vector normal to the plane, or a series as the normal distribution. Mathcad itself can not take all the blame

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

There is no norm for the definition of "norm".

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And more! In Mathcad Prime! If elements of vector have different dimension can we say that it is a vector!? This construction must have other name? not a vector (or matrix). A set of values? A vector is a set of values with same dimention (length!).

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

I would just call it an "array". In this case, a single column array.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Richard Jackson wrote:

I would just call it an "array". In this case, a single column array.

"A single column array"

One joke.

Do you know that John is (an) Ambidexter?

Who?

John!

An engineer points that it is a vector, a mathematician - not a vector! See my start message!

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Valery Ochkov wrote:

And more! In Mathcad Prime! If elements of vector have different dimension can we say that it is a vector!?

If I recall, some of the mathematicans when I was in college were talking about n-dimensional spaces, which would infer vectors with n dimensions. Working in a plane we use two-diimensional vectors, in space we have three dimensional vectors, so . ..

My college text, Elementary Linear Algebra, Shields, Paul,Worth Publishers, 1968, talks about vector spaces, then extrapolates to function spaces, to introduce the concept of orthogonal functions and series expansion of functions into an infinite series (Taylor series are a function space, so is sine, cosine, Chebyshev polynomials, . . .

I would argue that a vector could be a single column of any length. (This is usually where Tom Gutman or another more mathematically adept person weighs in.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

OK!

I studied same Math in my University too.

What is it - a scalar or a vector or a matrix or a single column or a single row

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Valery Ochkov wrote:

OK!

I studied same Math in my University too.

What is it - a scalar or a vector or a matrix or a single column or a single row

As far as Mathcad is concerned, it's a single element array--if you try to address it as a scalar Mathcad will take offense.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm like the accountant:

A businessman was interviewing candidates for head accountant. He presented the first candidate with a balance sheet and asked, "What were my profits?" After several minutes of calculations, the man gave him an answer. The second man, presented with the same information and asked the same question took twice as long to compute a slightly smaller answer. When the third candidate was presented with the same problem the response was immediate, "Whatever you want it to be!"

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Fred Kohlhepp wrote:

Valery Ochkov wrote:

OK!

I studied same Math in my University too.

What is it - a scalar or a vector or a matrix or a single column or a single row

As far as Mathcad is concerned, it's a single element array--if you try to address it as a scalar Mathcad will take offense.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm like the accountant:

A businessman was interviewing candidates for head accountant. He presented the first candidate with a balance sheet and asked, "What were my profits?" After several minutes of calculations, the man gave him an answer. The second man, presented with the same information and asked the same question took twice as long to compute a slightly smaller answer. When the third candidate was presented with the same problem the response was immediate, "Whatever you want it to be!"

And other jole:

The guests are gone and the wife tells her husband: You told John that he was right. But you told Sam that he is also right. But John and Sam have had the opposite opinion. How can this be?! The husband thought about it and said, and you, my dear, are right!

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

We have in Mathcad two tools in one box - a vector/matrix/tensor and an 2D/3D/Nested array.

When we work with any vector/matrix we must have ORIGIN=1

When we work with any array we must have ORIGIN=0

One typical vector by solving in Mathcad one physical problem:

One typical not vectors but 2D array (a simple colomn array):

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Valery Ochkov wrote:

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Two length and two vectors product in Mathcad:

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Valery Ochkov wrote:

And more! In Mathcad Prime! If elements of vector have different dimension can we say that it is a vector!? This construction must have other name? not a vector (or matrix). A set of values? A vector is a set of values with same dimention (length!).

Sorry,

I think that a classic vector can have different dimensions too. See one typical simple task from a linear algebra bellow (True, the unit for mathematicians - is like a red rag to a bull!).

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Dear Sir It's mayur here from INDIA.

I am working as power technologist in Essar engineering service division.

I recently start using of Mathcad.

I have created one mathcad file for Pipe sizing and pressure drope calculation for High pressure piping.

Now how to get different result by only changing pressure and temperature and other relevant detail.

I want some exampels on HOW to use TEXTBOX.and how my equation get the input data from only textbox.

Thanks,

Mayur

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Hello!

Please create new topic here (and do not forget attach Mathcad file to the meassege and specify Mathcad version you are using): http://communities.ptc.com/community/mathcad

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

hi

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Mike

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

how convert one unit in another unit using textbox.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Have a look at this worksheet, might get you started.

Sorry I haven't got enough time to create a thread for you.

Mike

Message was edited by: Mike Armstrong

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Thanks a lot.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

What version of Mathcad are you using? Mike attached the file for version Mathcad 14/15.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Mayur Patel wrote:

How convert one unit in another unit using textbox.

May be so (Mathcad 11 Server):

http://twtmas.mpei.ac.ru/mas/Worksheets/TextBox_Units.mcd

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

How to give a referance of the table to the mathcad file and how mathcad take value directly from table by giving input only.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

I am not able to define Temperature in Degree Celsius in Textbox.It show the error the value shall be scaler.

hope you understand my problem.

Thanks.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

mayur patel wrote:

You need to use "Use advanced editor" option:

And then select "Attach Files":

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Can you explain why you need to convert units using a textbox? Just so we have a better understanding of what you are trying to achieve.

Mike

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Hey MIke,

I am making the calculation sheet for pressure drope calculation in high pressure piping for power plant.

I am using textbox for adding my inputs which are in different units.

For this i am using list box/combo box.

When i am difining the Temperature in deegre celsius it shows the error THIS VALUE MUST BE SCALAR.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

mayur patel wrote:

Hey MIke,

I am making the calculation sheet for pressure drope calculation in high pressure piping for power plant.

I am using textbox for adding my inputs which are in different units.

For this i am using list box/combo box.

May be this is a help for you:

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Can you please provide a worksheet?

Mike

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

sorry i am finding some problem to upload it.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Click the 'Use advanced editor' in the top right corner and then you will be allowed to upload documents.

Mike

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

mayur patel wrote:

Hey MIke,

When i am difining the Temperature in deegre celsius it shows the error THIS VALUE MUST BE SCALAR.

Alt+0176 C - °C

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Or use this

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Cheers Valery.

Mike

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Hey valery can u guide me how to find dynamic viscosity of steam as function pressure and temperature.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

There is no way to transfer units typed in a textbox to the output variable. You will have to use the technique Valery shows, or something similar (I would use a listbox rather than radio buttons, but that's just a personal choice).

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Can any one guide me how to find dynamic viscosity of Steam at particular temperature and pressure.

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

or thru DLL (see www.wso.ru)

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

I am using Mathcad version 14.Can u guide me how can i get WaterSteamPro (General) and how can i install it in my system or mathcad.

Thanks

MAyur

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

mayur patel wrote:

I am using Mathcad version 14.Can u guide me how can i get WaterSteamPro (General) and how can i install it in my system or mathcad.

Thanks

MAyur

Thanks for the interest to WaterSteamPro.

All instructions are here - www.wsp.ru

You must install the program and get the access thru e-mail orlov@twt.mpei.ac.ru

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Hey Valery

How can i Referance my Excle sheet to my Equiation and How my Result direct select the value from the given table.

Suppose i want Viscosity as result i have input of pressure and temperature.

I have table in which different value of viscosity calculated according to the different pressure and tempearture.

How can i get viscosity by giving input of pressure and tempearture?

Thanks,

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Why "Hey Valery"?

Must be "Hey All"!

You can use WaterSteamPro in Excel too:

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

Hey Valery Thanks But I need editable copy because i have to calculate no. of datas.

U can send editable copyif it possible to you to my Email addres.

Thanks,

• Re: "Engineering mathematics" in Mathcad

mayur patel wrote:

Hey Valery Thanks But I need editable copy because i have to calculate no. of datas.

U can send editable copyif it possible to you to my Email addres.

Thanks,

Sorry, Mayur.

But I do not quit understand what do you want to get from me.