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___ Daily update. CHEVROLET CAMARO 2010 -STYLE- CLASS A SURFACES - Working in progress (SPARE TIME)

msiviero
4-Participant

___ Daily update. CHEVROLET CAMARO 2010 -STYLE- CLASS A SURFACES - Working in progress (SPARE TIME)

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155 REPLIES 155
msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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great work Marcio ....////

All the best ..

rohit_rajan
13-Aquamarine
(To:msiviero)

I think PTC should use this to improve their surfacing capabilities.

Rohit,

I am going to challenge your statement a bit.

Do you think Creo is not a good surfacing tool?

What are you comparing it to when making that statement?

How would you "improve" it?

rohit_rajan
13-Aquamarine
(To:DeanLong)

CATIA and NX offcourse i am comparing to.

Creo is a very good surfacing tool.

but more options in technical surfacing.

for example :

Fill option only takes care of planar closed sketches..i think its time they expand that.

rohit_rajan
13-Aquamarine
(To:DeanLong)

don't get me wrong i am a great fan of Pro/Engineer.

In fact when i started using solidworks..i understood..how much better Pro/Engineer is.Its been 4 years since we are using solidworks parallel to Pro/Engineer...and i am convinced Pro/Engineer is far ahead..

Catia and NX are good stuff. But both of those are still (mostly) Boolean, curve driven surfacing tools...exactly like Creo. The difference is in their easy explicit control of finer precision surfacing derived from their years of automotive and aerospace use driven by the customers. Creo would have evolved very similarly had Ford standardized on Creo back in 90's. But that didn't happen. You can do some of the finer type work, but it is somewhat laborious.

Fill: True, it's a planar "tool" if you will. But essentially the Boundary Blend is a "Fill" tool for a 3D curve network. The functions are in all software, just called different things. It really comes down to using each software appropriately.

Also, I use SolidWorks too and I agree with your statement. Creo is far, far ahead. But keep in mind SW was originally written to "fill the gap" at the lower end of the use spectrum. It has become better and better over the last 20 years but still lacks robustness. I mean, let's be honest....Dassault is never going to let SW out do its flagship Catia. I think of SW as the Little Brother, fighting his Big Brother, and gets a good punch in once in a while. Ultimately, the reality is Big Brother would crush Little Brother in a real fight! I think I just lit the fuse......

Steven,

Yes, knew some of this from back in my Detroit days when 1. SW was purchased and 2. all the "speculation" about where SW would fit into the Dassault stable started to pick up steam. My $.02 is I believe Dassault's original plan was to let SW somewhat flame out, just like they did with Icem/Surf and bring SW users over to Catia early on. But they underestimated the loyal following initiated by the marketing genius of SW in the early days that added user base faster than a viral breakout. Suddenly half the CAD world were SW users and Dassault could not risk losing face. And, I believe Dassault thought PTC would "answer the call" with some brilliant business play that simply never materialized. They were too busy stroking themselves and getting Windchill rammed down everyone's throat.

It will be interesting to see the day when, not if, the SolidWorks nameplate goes bye-bye. Anyone care to take a bet?

rohit_rajan
13-Aquamarine
(To:msiviero)

one question:

have you used actual car pics or videos to build this?or may be the actual car?

msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

Hello Steven.

size.jpg

Constantin
13-Aquamarine
(To:msiviero)

Very impressive project and fun to follow along!

Hi Marcio,

Great work and thanks for the periodic update.

If you could create a script or video of your work it will be a very helpful tool  to coach themselves in ISDX.

I was following the interesting discussion between you and Dean.

I was wondering can this work be done using Creo Freestyle sub divisional modeling and can we achieve Class A surface?


Suresh P

PTC

Suresh,

I will give my response to your question.

First the definition:

Class A surfaces is a term used in automotive
design
to describe a set of freeform surfaces of high
efficiency and quality. Although, strictly, it is nothing more than saying the
surfaces have curvature and tangency alignment - to ideal aesthetical
reflection quality, many people interpret class A surfaces to have G2 (or even
G3) curvature continuity to one another.

So, can Freeform, Style or boundary surfacing achieve a Class A surface with
regard to the above definition? The answer, is yes. But
your question is much more complicated than a simple yes. While very cool and
great work, Marcio has not really created what would be regarded as a true
Class A automotive surface set. He has created Style (ISDX) boundary surfaces
with what appears to be G2 continuity. When working a production vehicle's
surface set, we have the scan data (point cloud, optical scan facets, etc) in
the background as the target. That data has all the nuances, fullness,
inflections, reflection flow, etc...that the Studio Designer has
painstakingly developed in clay. As the Body Designer, it is up to him or her
to capture all that detail in the surfaces. The 2D "blueprint" that
Marcio used cannot provide that detail. It simply give the "intersections"
of surfaces. Remember, surfacing a vehicle requires "developed"
geometry, not "resultant" geometry. 95% of the "surfaced"
things you see out there are "resultant" in nature. I.E. Intersected
sketches or surfaces to get a curve network (boundaries, U and V lines,
etc...) then surfaces are created from that. Vehicles are done somewhat opposite.

The other huge issue, with using the Creo
suite for this kind of work, is it's too rigid and restrictive. All the
Style feature(s) Marcio has created are 'related' with Parent/Child relationships
along the way in order to get the G2. That's just the nature of
Style. That means if he had to go back and remove feature 11 and
replace it with a new surface he will lose continuity somewhere, or worse,
the surface(s) will lose a reference and the whole data set will sit in limbo
until it can be resolved. Real body design goes through this type of
'development' for a bit of time while the surfaces are being 'sweetened'. Not to mention the need to work

"inside" the boundaries to capture the details (fender dart, hood bulge, etc...) Easy manipulation

and verification of the surfaces is simply too difficult with Creo. This
is why Catia, Icem/Surf, NX and others are used for this type of work. Creo et
al simply does not make it easy to do.

Your real question was about Freestyle. Sub-D modeling looks pretty neat and
I suspect that is could be used create some really cool stuff. Would it ever
become the standard for vehicles? I cannot say.

Marcio, I know you will read this. Please don't mis-understand my response
to Suresh. As I said earlier in the thread, you have done some really cool
stuff with this exercise. I was simply pointing out the important nuances
involved.

msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

celebrate 2000.jpg

msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

Yes Steven... I'm always mirroring surfaces over the center to see how it's going...

steven.jpg

msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

Thanks Steven!

msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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Finally some color!

Nice work Marcio.

msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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msiviero
4-Participant
(To:msiviero)

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