topic Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis in Analysis

Creo Simulate contact analysis

ilyachaban — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 08:19:45 GMT

Hello, I'm trying to create and simulate contact analysis on mounted parts there are 6 main frames, 12 bolts and 4 pins with around 20 contacts defined.

simulation doesn't converge at all. everything i've tried didn't get me anywhere always contact area is dancing around and residual factor too.

I'm sure that I have defined all the contacts in all the places. All the frames are modelled as 1 part and all the bolts has slight interpenetration to create pretension. But it doesnt converge at all.

Is there any good practice how to create contact simulation with many contacts? \

Things that i've tried: create pretension, delete pretension, fine mesh, rough mesh, change parameter called sim_contact_tolerance_factor increase/decreace, change convergence settings, finite friction, infinite friction, 0 friction,

Example of convergence:

Load factor : 1.00000e-01 Residual norm tolerance: 1.00000e-09 ------------------------------------------ Iteration Residual norm Area ------------------------------------------ 1 1.0000e+00 7.0615e+04 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:51:17 2 1.0000e+00 4.5168e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:51:56 3 1.0063e-03 3.4800e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:52:35 4 1.3636e-06 2.9005e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:53:14 5 1.5219e-07 2.6358e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:53:53 6 7.2918e-07 2.1785e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:54:33 7 3.9976e-08 1.8730e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:55:12 8 2.2661e-08 1.7018e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:55:50 9 1.0919e-08 1.7080e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:56:29 10 5.4540e-09 1.6276e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:57:08 11 3.2743e-09 1.5247e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:57:46 12 4.0881e-09 1.4957e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:58:24 13 6.8582e-05 1.8358e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:59:05 14 1.0554e-08 1.7415e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 06:59:44 15 4.1022e-07 1.5177e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:00:23 Loosening gap stiffness to improve convergence 16 2.3832e-07 1.4155e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:01:02 17 1.7176e-08 2.9714e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:01:41 18 2.0151e-07 2.6400e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:02:20 19 6.1776e-09 2.4227e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:02:59 20 1.1068e-09 2.5557e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:03:41 21 1.1850e-09 2.3187e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:04:23 22 7.6003e-10 2.4082e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:05:05 Adjusted gap stiffness to prevent interpenetration 23 2.7779e-08 2.2493e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:05:47 24 3.6278e-09 2.1695e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:06:29 25 3.0372e-09 2.0945e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:07:10 26 9.6627e-10 2.1422e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:07:52 Adjusted gap stiffness to prevent interpenetration 27 1.5556e-07 2.0513e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:08:34 28 1.7384e-08 2.0158e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:09:16 29 5.1700e-09 1.8797e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:09:58 30 3.3820e-09 1.9962e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:10:37 31 5.6008e-09 2.1553e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:11:20 32 9.8902e-08 2.0151e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:12:02 33 1.2410e-08 2.1347e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:12:44 34 2.0315e-08 1.9927e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:13:29 35 2.4502e-08 1.9847e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:14:14 36 2.1911e-08 2.0351e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:14:56 37 1.3892e-08 1.8761e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:15:38 38 1.7767e-08 1.8462e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:16:23 39 3.3594e-08 1.9113e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:17:05 40 2.0919e-08 1.8388e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:17:48 41 1.7216e-08 1.7961e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:18:34 42 1.9691e-08 1.8318e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:19:15 43 1.4191e-08 2.2937e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:19:57 44 1.9441e-08 2.1013e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:20:38 45 4.6010e-08 2.0278e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:21:20 46 6.4672e-08 2.1654e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:22:01 47 2.6309e-08 1.9879e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:22:42 48 2.5303e-08 1.9170e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:23:23 49 1.7855e-08 1.8747e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:24:04 50 2.2876e-08 1.8581e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:24:47 51 1.7156e-08 2.1835e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:25:28 52 1.9992e-08 1.9296e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:26:10 53 1.5495e-08 1.8153e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:26:52 54 1.7576e-08 1.8018e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:27:34 55 2.1264e-08 2.0016e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:28:16 56 5.7598e-08 2.1021e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:28:58 57 5.1185e-08 2.0055e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:29:40 58 2.7393e-08 1.9653e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:30:24 59 1.8009e-08 2.2472e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:31:04 60 2.1383e-08 1.9777e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:31:47 61 1.5448e-08 2.7099e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:32:28 62 2.2027e-08 2.1360e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:33:09 63 1.8144e-08 1.9227e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:33:51 64 2.0051e-08 1.8533e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:34:33 65 1.5847e-08 1.8219e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:35:14 66 1.7437e-08 1.8076e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:35:56 67 1.5126e-08 1.7785e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:36:37 68 2.0546e-08 1.7657e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:37:18 69 1.6498e-08 1.7678e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:38:00 70 1.8724e-08 1.7677e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:38:41 71 1.1573e-04 2.1970e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:39:24 72 4.8163e-08 2.4947e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:40:06 73 2.3002e-08 2.3116e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:40:47 74 2.4053e-08 2.1288e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:41:30 75 2.0014e-08 1.9955e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:42:12 76 1.3195e-06 2.0574e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:42:53 77 3.2539e-08 2.0102e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:43:34 Loosening gap stiffness to improve convergence 78 2.3099e-07 1.9458e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:44:15 79 1.5378e-08 3.8771e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:44:57 80 4.6065e-10 3.4422e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:45:38 Adjusted gap stiffness to prevent interpenetration 81 1.0244e-05 3.2347e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:46:19 82 1.5491e-08 3.1698e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:47:00 83 3.6565e-09 2.9462e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:47:41 84 6.8412e-06 2.9824e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:48:24 85 1.1817e-08 2.9346e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:49:05 86 2.5043e-09 2.8267e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:49:47 87 6.8605e-06 3.0087e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:50:28 88 1.1866e-08 2.9516e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:51:11 89 1.0546e-09 2.7080e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:51:53 90 3.8126e-10 2.6411e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:52:35 Adjusted gap stiffness to prevent interpenetration 91 1.0846e-05 2.8424e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:53:17 92 3.3304e-08 3.0010e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:53:59 93 2.4314e-08 2.7980e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:54:43 94 6.8635e-06 2.8386e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:55:27 95 5.9190e-08 2.8131e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:56:12 96 9.8588e-08 2.6766e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:56:54 97 8.0458e-06 2.8834e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:57:36 98 8.1294e-08 2.8023e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:58:19 99 5.6426e-08 2.7309e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:59:00 100 7.0291e-06 2.8284e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 07:59:41 101 7.1255e-08 2.7621e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:00:22 102 8.1001e-08 2.6611e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:01:07 103 1.6458e-05 2.8637e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:01:48 104 8.8166e-08 2.8570e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:02:30 105 4.7127e-08 2.7471e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:03:11 106 8.0635e-08 2.6558e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:03:52 107 8.3996e-08 2.6504e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:04:33 108 1.0161e-07 2.6241e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:05:16 109 9.0707e-08 2.8402e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:05:58 110 5.8664e-08 2.5479e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:06:39 111 6.3605e-08 2.7803e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:07:19 112 5.7070e-08 2.6285e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:08:00 113 6.7747e-08 2.6181e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:08:41 114 9.3685e-08 2.5727e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:09:23 115 9.8192e-08 2.5920e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:10:04 116 6.1752e-08 2.5765e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:10:45 117 4.5283e-08 2.5537e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:11:27 118 4.6889e-08 2.5467e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:12:09 119 9.4066e-08 2.5475e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:12:51 120 1.0892e-07 2.5518e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:13:33 121 7.8654e-08 2.5502e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:14:15 122 5.5850e-08 2.5414e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:14:58 123 6.5924e-08 2.5416e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:15:40 124 5.8445e-08 2.5608e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:16:23 125 7.4771e-08 2.5475e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:17:04 126 9.1982e-08 2.6044e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:17:46 127 7.9292e-08 2.5720e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:18:28 128 5.7563e-08 2.5723e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:19:11 129 5.1478e-08 2.5630e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:19:52 130 6.7792e-08 2.5582e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:20:35 131 6.7552e-08 2.5458e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:21:19 132 1.3451e-05 2.7547e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:22:01 133 9.9186e-08 3.0008e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:22:43 134 6.1487e-08 2.8062e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:23:26 135 9.8840e-08 2.6977e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:24:08 136 7.1119e-08 2.6732e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:24:50 137 8.4347e-08 2.6239e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:25:34 138 8.4888e-08 2.8356e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:26:16 139 8.8095e-08 2.7001e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:26:58 140 5.7661e-08 2.6567e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:27:40 141 5.2874e-08 2.6346e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:28:22 Loosening gap stiffness to improve convergence 142 2.4066e-07 2.5976e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:29:04 143 1.8710e-08 4.2414e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:29:46 144 1.4229e-11 3.7598e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:30:28 Adjusted gap stiffness to prevent interpenetration 145 2.8200e-08 3.5965e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:31:12 146 1.8107e-09 3.2997e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:31:55 147 1.4521e-06 3.1972e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:32:37 148 8.4482e-09 3.4040e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:33:19 149 7.1332e-07 3.3546e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:34:01 150 6.1081e-09 3.3426e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:34:48 151 7.0771e-07 3.3504e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:35:31 152 6.1759e-09 3.3538e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:36:14 153 1.4985e-06 3.2793e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:36:57 154 8.2031e-09 3.4151e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:37:40 155 7.2095e-07 3.3592e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:38:23 156 6.9027e-09 3.3350e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:39:03 157 7.0358e-07 3.3479e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:39:46 158 7.2600e-09 3.3489e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:40:29 159 1.4456e-06 3.2722e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:41:11 160 8.4897e-09 3.4237e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:41:55 161 7.1577e-07 3.3672e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:42:37 162 6.8557e-09 3.3388e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:43:20 163 7.0876e-07 3.3475e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:44:03 164 6.8628e-09 3.3492e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:44:45 165 1.5032e-06 3.2760e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:45:29 166 8.6942e-09 3.4225e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:46:14 167 7.2145e-07 3.3608e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:46:59 Loosening gap stiffness to improve convergence 168 4.9275e-08 3.3360e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:47:43 169 7.1184e-08 4.3826e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:48:27 170 9.7485e-10 4.1120e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:49:11 Adjusted gap stiffness to prevent interpenetration 171 1.6248e-07 4.0265e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:49:56 172 1.7094e-09 3.8165e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:50:40 173 7.2348e-08 3.7901e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:51:24 174 1.1007e-09 3.7317e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:52:06 175 1.5279e-07 3.7274e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:52:48 176 1.6686e-09 3.7340e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:53:32 177 7.2210e-08 3.7132e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:54:16 178 1.0986e-09 3.6944e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:55:01 179 1.5281e-07 3.7019e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:55:45 180 1.6672e-09 3.7186e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:56:29 181 7.2214e-08 3.7710e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:57:14 182 1.0986e-09 3.7342e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:57:59 183 1.5281e-07 3.7270e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:58:45 184 1.6673e-09 3.7354e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 08:59:30 185 7.2205e-08 3.7138e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:00:14 186 1.0987e-09 3.6952e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:00:59 187 1.5281e-07 3.7012e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:01:45 188 1.6670e-09 3.7182e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:02:27 189 7.2211e-08 3.7710e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:03:10 190 1.0986e-09 3.7343e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:03:52 191 1.5281e-07 3.7269e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:04:35 192 1.6673e-09 3.7355e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:05:16 193 7.2205e-08 3.7141e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:05:58 Loosening gap stiffness to improve convergence 194 1.3992e-08 3.6951e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:06:39 195 1.5492e-08 4.8051e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:07:21 196 3.0527e-10 4.6902e+05 Fri Feb 17, 2023 09:08:08

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

EddyVE — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 08:48:38 GMT

Can you post a few screenshots of your assembly? That would help us in understanding what you are trying to do.

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

ilyachaban — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 09:22:20 GMT

sorry can't post screenshots here is a sketch of a half of it and some connections

Bolted connection

pin connection

rough sketch

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

skunks — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 09:51:53 GMT

contacts are very complicated, please upload STEP

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

ilyachaban — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:54:25 GMT

Sorry wrong formulation. I can't post work that i'm doing

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

skunks — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:13:31 GMT

OK, I am going to build a simple example

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

skunks — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:38:51 GMT

example contact

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

ilyachaban — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:47:49 GMT

Simulation that has that many elements actually works. There is no problem for me to simulate 2 parts in contact but when there is more parts simulation doesn't converge at all.

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

skunks — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:54:22 GMT

in the model there are contact gaps, depending on the absolute accuracy

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

ilyachaban — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 12:17:23 GMT

What do you mean by contact gaps

Is that it?

If it is: how did you choose 0.015?

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

skunks — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 12:37:37 GMT

yes: contact gap 0.15 mm > absolute accuracy 0.1 mm

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

skunks — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 12:38:22 GMT

sorry: contact gap 0.015 mm > absolute accuracy 0.01 mm

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

ilyachaban — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 12:39:26 GMT

Is there any literature that defines that or it is your expirience with PTC Creo Simulate?

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

skunks — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 12:57:10 GMT

literature in german ...

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

ilyachaban — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 12:59:24 GMT

Because I've seen in literature that creo converge easily if you turn on friction and create interpenetration. so cylindrical connection has some friction under the head and has something to prevent it from rotation.

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

skunks — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 13:54:53 GMT

turn on friction is completely wrong way

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

SweetPeasHub — Tue, 21 Feb 2023 13:38:22 GMT

Many contacts in Creo is difficult.

One tip I have is for a pin, to add a low stiffness spring (red color) to add some constraint to an otherwise loose pin.

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

skunks — Wed, 22 Feb 2023 08:11:00 GMT

I developed something like this about 12-13 years ago

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

ilyachaban — Wed, 22 Feb 2023 16:39:15 GMT

Hi, thank you for your tips about contact gaps and friction. For now I have working model that converges very quickly. I didn't see your tip about axial rotation tip but i will use it 100%.

What degrees of freedom does this spring limits all 3 or only in tangential direction?

Re: Creo Simulate contact analysis

ilyachaban — Wed, 22 Feb 2023 16:40:53 GMT

Thank you. Will try this one too. Now with the help of @skunks my model is working.