13 Replies Latest reply: Mar 8, 2017 11:16 AM by dschenken RSS

    Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols

    jgroãŸer Copper

      Hello,

       

      I just want to know what the status is to implement the ISO 14405 symbols. The topic was asked in 2015 already. It was promised that it will be implemented in the "next release".

      see Link: erzeugen von Textsymbolen an Bemassungen entsprechend der Norm DIN EN ISO 14405-1. Die Auswahl der zur Verfügung stehenden Textsymbole muß erweitert werden.

      If yes, where can I find the symbols. (Creo 2.0 / M210 and Creo 3.0 / M110)

      In case of it is not implemented, is it possible to cerate a intelligent Symbol with "oval" frame. Intelligent means, that the frame adjust itself to the text length (max. 3 letters in the oval frame/ font size does not change).

           for example for "SPC" or "cpk"

      Thanks in advance

        • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
          RaphaelCNascimento PTC Employee

          This was indeed implemented in Creo 4.0.

          To see the updated symbols, you will need to set the Detail Option "symbol_font" to either ASME or ISO. (Go to File > Prepare > Model Properties > Detail Options > Change)

          Then, when you are editing an annotation where it is possible to insert a symbol, you will see the updated symbol palette.

          The difference between ASME and ISO values of the "symbol_font" Detail Option is only for the appearance of the symbol font. The same characters are available for both ASME and ISO.

           

          You can also see a brief description of this enhancement in the What's New in Creo 4.0 section of the Creo Help Center:

          Creo Parametric Help Center

            • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
              Stephen Williams PTC Community Champion

              You missed these...     

                  • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
                    mender PTC Employee

                    They're definitely engineering symbols!  I've seen engineers make all of those faces!

                    • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
                      MarkHeinze Bronze

                      Would be nice if that drop down box ( and many others in the system) would automatically expand (or be extended by default) down in length so all elements would show and save the user aggravation in having to scroll in that little box. The overview as such is so minimal. Windchill is notoriously plagued with such and using it so all day long can make a user nauseous. Effectivity in "using" WT could be improved dramatically. Of course, PTC programmers don't "use" WT, so they'd never notice. A small thing you say. So is a thorn. Go sit on one EVERY day for eight hours and tell me how small the thorn is.

                        • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
                          RaphaelCNascimento PTC Employee

                          Yes, I agree that the usability of this small symbols palette could be improved.

                          We're looking into some options for that in the future.

                            • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
                              MarkHeinze Bronze

                              Thank you. I look forward to HUGE improvements in user ergononics through making such small adjustments.

                              (The worst thing about scrolling such little windows, is that this "additional" task of having to scroll as well is a distraction from the original task at hand which is find and select a target. Save us and watch for that kind of thing during the implementation of new wonderful features - lest they just become new drudgery features.)

                                • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
                                  mender PTC Employee

                                  A side note, it was mentioned that similar issues exist in Windchill.  It may be worth specifically mentioning them (if this is not already done) in that forum, as I don't expect they would notice this Creo discussion, or know which particular workflows are less-than-ideal.

                                    • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
                                      dschenken PTC Community Champion

                                      I have previously suggested to a guy named Mike who is in charge of some people at PTC that there needs to be a UI group and was told that every product manager is on their own to make things best for their own little piece, even if it's inconsistent with other groups. So Sketcher still works differently than the 2D drawing mode.

                                        • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
                                          BenLoosli PTC Community Champion

                                          It shows that PTC has no UI group to clear the interface issues.

                                          I know another CAD vendor in the USA who releases NO code unless their UI group has looked at and approved the changes for the module being coded.

                                           

                                          Consistent UI is a vast productivity improvement for the end user at very little cost to the CAD coders.

                                            • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
                                              RaphaelCNascimento PTC Employee

                                              It's not true that there is no UI group. There absolutely is and this group works closely with Product Managers and Product Designers to review designs and provide input from a usability perspective.

                                              However, does this mean that every button and function in the software is completely consistent and that it reflects the best usability? Not necessarily.

                                              First of all, usability is subjective. Some people might prefer one thing while others prefer a different thing.

                                              Secondly, Creo is a big, complex software with over 30 years of history. Sometimes it is just not possible or practical to update everything all at once, and tradeoffs are made. Should we not do a project that improves usability for a function that is used very often because we cannot at the same time update another tool that is hardly ever used just to remain consistent? There is no one-size-fits-all answer and it depends on the situation.

                                              Rest assured that we are focusing on consistency across the product, but sometimes it takes a while for every function in a huge product with a lot of history to be updated.

                                                • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
                                                  dschenken PTC Community Champion

                                                  Just look at how two elements are extended to intersection in Sketcher and in Detail. Maybe they were finally made the same, but from Pro/E 12 to Creo 2 they acted differently. I don't believe they are 'hardly ever used.'

                                                   

                                                  It seems like it's not a UI group but a usability test group. UI should be done in advance of software development.

                              • Re: Status of implementing ISO 14405 Symbols
                                jgroãŸer Copper

                                Thanks for Status update.

                                Unfortunately we are working with Creo 2.0 / M210 and Creo 3.0 / M110. It depends on our customers.