Replacing balloons table in assembly drawings

[tleati]

Hallo,

sometimes, in assembly drawings, it happens to me to have to replace the components table (for example when I change the language of the drawing) from which I had already put the relative balloons on the views, with a new one: the problem is, if I delete the existing component table, all the balloons are deleted with it and I have therefore to re-insert all of them with the new table.

Anyone knows how to replace the existing table with the new one, bringing the balloons with it?

I insert a screen recording video below, it should be more clear:

Video Link : 6004

thanks

bye

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[daraneda]

Dude

I know it can't be possible, because the ballons are linked to a specific table in the drawing. If you delete that table, the ballons are deleted.

Best regards

[tleati]

Monsieur Dude,

yes I already know balloons are linked to the table, I was asking whether there is a way to replace the table with a new one, just like one replaces a component in a assembly --> all the links change automatically their references!

thanks

Bye

[dschenken]

No, at least not until PTC adds that specific function, which won't be any time soon.

Someone with access to Toolkit might be able to parse the drawing, record the exact locations and groups and references/attach points, and any items (symbols, text) that are related to those balloons, make a list to record the table entries vs balloon numbers, then delete the table which will delete all the balloons, then go through the new table and search for matches between the previous table and new table entries and recreate the balloons, change their attachments to match, change their locations to match and relate any symbol and text to the balloons that were related to the previous balloons.It may also require verifying the original layers the balloons were on and, possibly, some other characteristics.

[tleati]

yes indeed it seems to be a not-so-much difficult thing to implement....at least for software developers!

[Patriot_1776]

Yeah, that'll happen soon......NOT!

I'm still struggling with the fact that fixing indexes is TOTALLY glitchy, especially if there is a flexible part ANYWHERE in the assembly......

[DonSenchuk]

We use flexible components often enough and haven't really noticed glitches when using Fix Index.

[schavan]

if it is just change in language then dont delete the original table (the one with balloons linked to it as you might need it later) just place it outside the format (it wont show up in the PDF after export ) and for the new table, fix the index same as the balloon.. Not much of a solution though!

[tleati]

Hallo Sandeep,

yes could be a solution but it would bother me to leave a table outside the format...but anyway, how can I fix the index as you wrote?

thanks

[mmuhamedagic]

Hi Tommaso,

First of all question: Why you need to change BOM table ? Only becouse language or is there more reasons ?

If you need to put new language, you must separate table (make two tables template), one for textual (on several languages) and one for repeat region content.

There is a lot of solutions for you languages insertion ( exp. you can do also trough parameters, etc).

But if I get it right, you need quick solution for ballon arranging ?

[tleati]

Hi,

unfortunately it is not so easy as you think, indeed we are using Windchill and we constantly work with both languages (Italian and English), we have Windchill and model-related parameters that must form repeat regions, for instance the description of a component of an assembly.

So switching the language of the column/rows titles is not sufficient unfortunately.

Yes I was searching a way to just transfer the indexes of the table from the existing to a new one.

thanks

bye

[mmuhamedagic]

Hi Tommaso,

OK, still you didn't answer why you need to change BOM table? The reason why Im asking is: I notice in your clip that you've replaced table with other table with different amount of items. So if you are doing that, the assembly also has been changed (you get new revision) ?

I´m trying to find reason, and I apologise if you wanna keep your reason.

I presume that you had replace some parts in assembly and after that you need fresh BOM table ??

If you´re trying to change table with previous parts replacement and changing assembly, you dont need to insert new table. It automaticlly regenerate, and reorder ballons. And if you are missing some ballons just add them into drawing.

Of course you maybe already know this, but Im short in your answer before.

[tleati]

No no, the assembly does not change !

in the clip maybe it seemed to you that the amount of items is different, indeed the new table has only tighter rows . (--> so the table is smaller and it seemed to you it has less items).

(and the clip was just an example anyway).

the reason why I change the BOM table was implicit: in order to change the language of the table, it's far more rapid to change directly the table (I have tables saved in the two languages and for several formats), instead of changing the repeat regions and the titles each time.

bye

[mmuhamedagic]

Ok, now we are closer to the point. Instead that you change table, better change text through relations formula if you are doing some repetitive job with same text ( exp. denominazione = description). Even better because you´re working in Windchill. I presume that you have that text (denominazione or description) as parameter in your PDM software

You can use current situation to make table with both language inside of it. And for the future table insertions.

If you decide to work with relations maybe is far more easier, than changing entire balloons arrangement (what is in this case unsolved so far).

Often mistake (my opinion only) is to make format template with BOM table inside of it. It is better to do this separate and leave BOM table unattached with others drawing informations. In that case you will make your drawings more flexibile for info drawing modifications.

[tleati]

Hi,

I really cannot figure out how I can switch from a language to another with relations without having to change the BOM table and to do repetitive tasks as you say, could you please make a practical example?

[mbonka]

My praxis is following:

STEP 01: Create a assembly BOM drawing

STEP 02: l need change drawing format and KEEP BOM baloons

STEP 03: KEEP ORIGINAL BOM TABLE and remove original Title block

STEP 04: After format exchange, there are two BOM tables. DELETE new BOM table and move original one als you wish.

STEP 05: Result: Format was chnged and BOM baloons are kept.

l hope it can help you...

[tleati]

Dear Milan,

thanks for your detailed reply. I didn't understand exactly steps 2 and 3 (when one changes format can single tables be selected to be keep or removed ?)

Anyway if I got it it seems that with your method you keep the original BOM table, instead what I want to do is to change it while keeping the balloons.

anyway you suggested me an idea, that is to to insert the BOM table directly inside the format so when I load the format the corresponding BOM table automatically appears (didn't know about this possibility).

thanks

bye

[mbonka]

My format library has following structure:

a4_y_iso_det.frm ---> A4 - paper size ; Y - longer paper side; DET - detailed drawing format

a4_y_iso_bom.frm ---> A4 - paper size ; Y - longer paper side; BOM - BOM table included inside format

a4_x_iso_det.frm ---> A4 - paper size ; X - longer paper side; DET - detailed drawing format

a4_x_iso_bom.frm ---> A4 - paper size ; X - longer paper side; BOM - BOM table included inside format

Same princip for all other paper size A3; A2; A1; A0
Use config options pro_format_dir to specify you format directory destination.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you want change language inside your tables and keep ballons?

STEP 01: Create a parameters that you want show in you BOM table in many languages

parameter NAME_ENGLISH string value = Engine

parameter NAME_GERMAN string value = Motor

parameter NAME_FRENCH string value = Motour

STEP 02: Create 3 SAME BOM tables ---> only different is in language, that you call.

STEP 03: Put all 3 tables in yourf BOM format AT THE SAME PLACE.

STEP 04: Create DRAWING LAYER named "BOM language" and include all 3 BOM tables.

STEP 05: Create a BOM ballons from you default language (l gues english)

STEP 06: Hide / unhide desired table.

RESULT:

BOM ballons source is in your english BOM table. You can HIDE english BOM and UNHIDE German one ---> BOM ballons are kept.

NOTE:

SORT BY inside all 3 tables should be the same ---> in all 3 tables has each part same BOM baloon number.

Hope you are not confused

[tleati]

Hi Milan,

thanks a lot, it seems a nice solution.

(I've just tested hidden tables do not even create mess if they are overlapped by some other table or the drawing itself, when you press Alt and click).

(Step 1 had been already done).

with SORT BY in the note what do you mean? (the small screenshot also, what does forward mean and where can I find that file? should I set forward for all the repetition regions?)

thanks

bye

[mbonka]

Propably, in all languages you want to keep for PART ENGINE SAME BOM NUMBER. If you use different SORT BY parameter the number will be different ---> Example: Table shows ENGINE is position 3, but BOM balloon value is 5.

From this reason l use "additional" parameter for SORT BY parameter. It´s called "POZICE" (position in english).In your case HAS TO BE this parameter same in all 3 BOM tables. Thise parameter is out of paper space ---> not shown on printed drawing. Parameter &rpt.index is called into BOM balloon value.

See the picture:

Why l use additional parameter POZICE as a SORT BY parameter?

Try to imagine: l have an assembly with subasseblies and a part ENGINE (drawing number 01_04 ---> POZICE = 4 ) used in many subasseblies.

Subassembly A,that included part ENGINE, has a part BOX (drawing number 02_04 ---> POZICE = 4 )

Both have same SORT BY parameter POZICE ---> use the second rule &asm.mbr.pro_mp_mass.

Reason from praxis:

If you don´t use these trick, both parts will be the same BOM balloon value.

Hope it´s clear...

[tleati]

yes it's clear, thanks for it.

But by default the BOM NUMBERS, how are they sorted? randomly? because if there is some rule, if I do not change the assembly, the bom number for the same part remains the same in all languages (tables) -->to this point I point out that currently we have no parts of sub-assembly to show in the BOM (the sub-assembly has its own drawing and one has to refer to it for its parts), so there would be no reason for using an additional parameter (POZICE in your case).

bye

[mbonka]

l´m not 100%, but the default sort by rule is a weight.The heaviest down at BOM table and the lightest up.

1. Thanks to additional parameter l have a chance to reorder table rows.

2. The reason of additional parameter is simple: At each drawing is each BOM balloon value unique.

Example:

Part A: POZICE = 4 (1000 kg) --- BOM balloon value = 4 ---> &rpt.index = 4

Part B: POZICE = 4 (50 kg) --- BOM balloon value = 4 ---> &rpt.index = 5

Part C: POZICE = 4 (1 kg) --- BOM balloon value = 4 ---> &rpt.index = 6

What happen if l use parameter POZICE directly in BOM?

Part A: POZICE = 4 (1000 kg) --- BOM balloon value = 4

Part B: POZICE = 4 (50 kg) --- BOM balloon value = 4

Part C: POZICE = 4 (1 kg) --- BOM balloon value = 4

It´s just my tip...

[tleati]

yes but in my case I don't need it since we normally do not explode sub-assemblies in BOM Tables (only first level is reported).

Anyway I checked and we already have this trick implemented.

thanks again,

bye